deep in the obama boehner negotiations, they were talking about a proposal with 800 billion in revenue that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the people i talk with in washington are saying we're not going to get deep into this until mid-december at least. if we do a process of kind of incrementally coming from in between the two proposals, you could very easily imagine between obama and boehner on tacks is $1.2 trillion. that's where they end up on mandatory spending, 750. that wouldn't be a shocker either. boehner's opening bid here is not the bid of the side in the stronger position. it's a side desperately trying to get the press to compromise. >> now, michelle whark we don't see in the counteroffer is extension of payroll tax cut, extensi